Author Interview: "Baptizing America: How Mainline Protestants Helped Build Christian Nationalism"

New book from seasoned journalists highlights how and why Christian nationalism is not just a problem within Evangelical Christianity--the Mainline has work to do, too.

I first met Brian Kaylor and Beau Underwood soon after Taking America Back for God released. They were writing for Word & Way and publishing A Public Witness¹ as well as recording podcasts for Dangerous Dogma. In other words, they were busy!

I faithfully read and followed their work across these various channels because they are particularly adept and tracking the intersection of religion, culture, and politics while weaving in history and theological reflection. In the time I’ve spent with both in real life, I’ve come to appreciate who they are as people and how their work is a reflection of their faith and concern for the common good. They want to envision and work toward a world where we can all flourish.

I’m excited to share with you that they have a new book out that joins a growing chorus helping American Christians identify, understand, and confront Christian nationalism: Baptizing America: How Mainline Protestants Helped Build Christian Nationalism.

What sets their book apart is that it focuses on the role of Mainline Protestantism in building ***this*** (gesturing wildly at our current religio-cultural-political climate). It helps us see clearly that Christian nationalism is not a problem within just one religious tradition, but that it spans across time and tradition. This means that everyone, including those in Mainline spaces, should consider taking responsibility for where we find ourselves and commit to moving forward toward a different future.

As a part of the book rollout, I was honored to participate on a panel with Brian and Beau where we discussed their work.

I also asked them if they might respond to a series of questions that would help folks learn a bit more about the book, their work, and where we go from here. I’m excited to share their responses and I hope you pick up their book soon. You won’t be disappointed.

Congratulations on the recent release of Baptizing America! For those who may not be aware of the book, can you give us the “elevator pitch” of what it is about and the story you tell?

As awareness grows about the threat Christian Nationalism poses to both church and state, there’s been a lack of attention to the role mainline Protestants have played in creating and feeding this monster. This is not merely an ideology found among Trumpian evangelicals and Pentecostals. Baptizing America tells that story and offers practical ways that mainline Protestant members, pastors, and communities can address their own complicity in advancing this dangerous ideology. 

One thing that sets you both apart as authors of this book is your personal history and engagement with the topic for years now. Can you share a bit about the journey you have both been on—individually and together—in getting to this moment and writing Baptizing America?

We’ve had the joy of launching and collaborating on a Substack called A Public Witness that examines the intersection of religion, politics, and culture from a progressive (and often contrarian) Christian perspective. Lamentably, current expressions of Christian Nationalism have been a major emphasis of our coverage and commentary. As we wrote numerous pieces about Christian Nationalism among evangelicals, we started to see a pattern of the untold historical story about how mainline Protestants helped set the stage for our contemporary religious and political landscapes.

Both our friendship and writing partnership made co-authoring this book a relatively easy task. Plus, we can blame one another for the parts of the book that people don’t like. 

There’s a particular audience for your book. What has the reception been like thus far from those in more Mainline and progressive Christian congregations who may have thought Christian nationalism is more of an “out there” problem, and not one that needs to be wrestled with internally?

We have been encouraged by the early reception. As Will Willimon, a prominent Methodist minister and scholar, noted in his blurb, “This book has caused this mainliner to take a sober theological assessment of my church and its unknowing complicity in the naissance of ugly Christian Nationalism. Thanks to Baptizing America, I have met the syncretistic, idolatrous, confused Nationalist. It turns out that he looks like the nice, middle-of-the-road, moderate, Methodist me. Oops.”

There’s also been lots of people expressing surprise at some of the stories we tell. Whether it’s Harry Truman publicly promoting a Bible with leaders from the National Council of Churches long before Donald Trump was hawking the “God Bless the USA Bible” or mainliners championing the addition of “under God” to the Pledge of Allegiance, there’s a lot we’ve collectively forgotten or wanted to avoid naming. 

We hope this book offers a gentle push and a helpful guide to mainline communities wanting to understand the issue of Christian Nationalism generally and their own tradition’s contributions to its perpetuation more specifically. 

With every book, and definitely with yours, there are implications for moving forward. You will continue to work as journalists and serving as religious leaders. What are some outcomes you hope this work helps bring about and how confident are you we can make progress?

You cannot address a problem that isn’t understood. By filling in this gap in the conversation about Christian Nationalism, we hope we are making it easier to see the fullness and complexity of the issue in a way that allows more effective solutions to be identified. If we’ve achieved our goals, this book will spark conversations in churches and small groups that otherwise wouldn’t happen. And, if we have presented the information in the right way, those conversations should be more civil and gentle than discussions about these kinds of weighty topics often are. All to say, we’re hopeful this book will create some progress because it a) adds to our shared understanding of the problem of Christian Nationalism and b) will be a constructive resource for reflection on that problem within Christian communities and other places. 

You have each been tracking Christian nationalism for quite some time and your ongoing reporting is absolutely essential to researchers like me and to other journalists and religious leaders. Now that we have a clearer view of the history you both lay out in Baptizing America, what do you see coming next regarding Christian nationalism, American Christianity, and democracy in the United States?

Wow, that is a hard question because there are drastically different ways this could go.

On the one hand, the increased awareness of what Christian Nationalism is and the dangers it poses should create greater sensitivities around beliefs and practices that advance its cause. Hopefully, that will lead to adjustments in how we think and act that are good for both the Church’s witness and American democracy. Your research was a catalyst for that, as is your newest book American Idolatry. So we’re grateful to be partners in that effort.

On the other hand, advisors to former President Trump have reportedly made the overt embrace of Christian Nationalism a priority for his agenda should he win in November. In that scenario, both American Christianity and American democracy are likely to look very different. We could be entering a period where this fusion of identities is quite intense and those pushing back are harshly attacked for daring to call both our democracy and Christian churches to live up to their ideals. 

Finally, can you please share a bit about what keeps you each motivated or able to move forward each day—whether it is reporting on the newest instance of Christian nationalism or leading a congregation—in the face of what can seem like such an entrenched problem? What brings you hope for the journey?

We are both passionately committed to the Christian life. Unfortunately in our culture, being a Christian has been associated with a number of negative stereotypes that makes it difficult for non-Christians to see what Jesus is really about and for practicing Christians to understand what their faith requires of them. We became friends and then coauthors because of a shared conviction to bring our full selves—both heart and mind—to engaging our Christian commitments. We do that in a public way through our writing in the hopes that our efforts might help others in their own journey. So we hope and trust that the work we do both informs and inspires in ways that allow people to understand the world better and live more faithfully within it. 

More concretely, there are signs that mainline denominations, churches, and pastors are really wrestling with this topic. They want to understand it better and identify ways they can respond effectively, but the magnitude of the problem feels overwhelming. Hopefully, Baptizing America can be the resource they need to make this issue more digestible and a response within their own context more easy to discern.

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